LGBTQ Thoughts [movie spoilers]

[drakkar]

but that the whole of the dialogue (including the focus on advice for concrete action) strikes me as more "older brother" than any other particular role.

The film shows that Eli is a neutered boy, and he repeatedly tells Oskar he's not a girl. So the boyish behaviour of Eli just follows nicely suit. It's good attention to detail, actually.

During Christmas days my six years old niche told me she will beat me so much that I will vomit my Christmas dinner closely followed by a punch in my stomach.

This is the exact opposite situation - a girl behaving boyish.

However, he does wear his hair at shoulder length, adding to his appearance as a girl, but this could just be part of his general unkemptness. He might just not have bothered to cut it for some time.

Could also be that Eli wanted to appear as a girl, because little girls more easily evokes sympathy in the prey (anyone at the board feel guilty? ) than boys. get close to adults than young boys.
Or, it could be that Oskar wanted to see a girl. The film is mostly seen from his POV.

[sauvin]

How did rural Swedish boys wear their hair when Eli was turned?

[Ash]

How did rural Swedish boys wear their hair when Eli was turned?

Looks pretty like I did in the 70s, collar length over the ears, though this is more poor urban than poor rural. Probably longer and unkempt for a poor peasant boy - maybe even something approaching Lina's.

[drakkar]

Let me present two years old Franklin B. Roosevelt:



However that picture was taken 100 years after Eli's birth, and in a different country.

[metoo]

Looks pretty like I did in the 70s, collar length over the ears, though this is more poor urban than poor rural. Probably longer and unkempt for a poor peasant boy - maybe even something approaching Lina's.

This picture is from 1868. Eli was turned about 100 years earlier. (He told Oskar that he was born "about 220 years ago", i.e. around 1760, and thus was turned around 1770.)

[sauvin]

In other words, it seems fair to suppose that long hair would be common for boys of the time.

I was twelve (more or less) the year Oskar was born, and did most of my growing up in the '60's in heartland US where men of all ages were expected to keep the hair short, and barbers of the time all seemed to be retired Marine boot camp instructors. Shoulder-length hair on men and boys started getting to be common around the time I was five or six, but the general reaction towards such men usually involved P-words and C-words.

Nobody seems to notice when men have long hair now in the US, although it's still very rare to see long-haired men in high office. Short military style hair seems to suggest conservative leanings and traditional values.

I tend to keep my own hair very short, partly because it's how I grew up. I tried to grow it long but found it way too much trouble to deal with. Some of the other guys who grew up with long-ish hair have told me they don't like cutting their hair short because it leaves them feeling bald.

What I'm wondering is just how much is Eli's hair length a conscious decision to appear androgynous or even girl-like, how much is it just a general disregard for her appearance and hygiene, and how much is it that long hair is just what she's comfortable with because that's what she'd likely had when she was turned.

[lombano]

but that the whole of the dialogue (including the focus on advice for concrete action) strikes me as more "older brother" than any other particular role.

The film shows that Eli is a neutered boy, and he repeatedly tells Oskar he's not a girl. So the boyish behaviour of Eli just follows nicely suit. It's good attention to detail, actually.

I agree. What I meant was that, though Eli is a castrated boy in both versions, in the novel he seems clearly boyish to me in terms of behaviour, whereas in the film we have mostly masculine behaviour but a feminine demeanour. Basically the script is for a boyish character, so combined with Lina that yields an androgynous Eli.

[Klesk]

During Christmas days my six years old niche told me she will beat me so much that I will vomit my Christmas dinner closely followed by a punch in my stomach.

This is the exact opposite situation - a girl behaving boyish.

Not really. In her fantasy she is a mysterious Kung Fu princess from China and in kindergarten they told children to hit back if someone hit them. In her pink dresses she is far away from being tomboyish.

[dongregg]

During Christmas days my six years old niche told me she will beat me so much that I will vomit my Christmas dinner closely followed by a punch in my stomach.

This is the exact opposite situation - a girl behaving boyish.

Not really. In her fantasy she is a mysterious Kung Fu princess from China and in kindergarten they told children to hit back if someone hit them. In her pink dresses she is far away from being tomboyish.

Yep. Your niece is being herself. Since the battle lines are all drawn and not moving, I was going to let this thread rest, but casting your niece as "a girl behaving boyish" reminds me of how far into left field the thread has drifted. It seems to me a collection of gender stereotyping that is inimical to the best of LGBTQ thinking. Your niece is who she is and Eli is Eli.

[metoo]

In other words, it seems fair to suppose that long hair would be common for boys of the time.

Maybe. But I'm not convinced.

Anyway, "the time" is around 1780, the later part of the 18th century. Elias is old enough to likely have his hair like contemporary adult men of his own class. Unfortunately, almost all images from the time depict upper class men. They all wear wigs, but this are generally rather short, but often with a ponytail. Under the wigs I understand they would wear their hair very short.



But adults around Elias would not have afforded wigs. Still, they might have favoured hairstyles similar to the wigged men. That's plausible, at least.

After some more searching, I finally found a picture of some authentic Swedish peasants. Its painted a little later, in the 1790s, but it does suggest that men at the time wore their hair not short, but still not as long as Eli in the movie. However, this is after the French revolution, when wigs had fallen out of fashion, so male hair fashion might have been very different just a decade earlier, also among rural men in distant Sweden.