An Argument against Thesis M

[Bloody Mary]

A principle of Thesis M (dongregg’s name for the idea that Eli is a devious, evil Monster) is that Eli is preparing Oskar to serve as his replacement for Hakan. But the reason Eli needed someone to find food for him in the first place was that he hated killing people himself and making them suffer, as shown by his unhappiness after he kills Jocke. Eli’s dislike of killing demonstrates that he has compassion, which doesn’t make sense if he is using Oskar. Gaining Oskar’s trust, being his sole friend, and saving him from the Conny gang (which obviously imply he loves Oskar) for the purpose of turning him into a dependent mess like Hakan isn’t a thoughtless decision; it’s premeditated and takes time to carry out. Eli would have to be pretty heartless to do something like that. I’m not even sure a 12-year-old has the necessary cognitive development (although it would depend on the individual child). So since Eli’s reason for needing Hakan is his compassion—unless he is just extremely lazy—I don’t think that Thesis M holds up.

I don’t have the book with me now, but I think LtROI took place around this time of year, and it has been snowing where I am, so the Infection is particularly hungry. Had to post this, in spite of having a final exam on Friday.

[metoo]

Personally, I regard the novel as the best argument against Thesis M. Nothing else is needed, really.

[dongregg]

Additionally, Eli really is presented as childlike, even moreso than Oskar. Eli doesn't seem to plan much of anything, like when Eli said "about 12." Child, child, didn't you think about stuff that would come up if you started hanging out with Oskar? Evidently not, although the book, about which I know nothing, may present Eli as less in the moment than the film shows. Anyway, film Eli comes across as innocent. Bad things are caused by the fact that part of Eli can come under control of the vampire within. Lena said that, when they were shooting, she was Eli. Asked what Eli is like, Lena said that Eli is kind. That's how film Eli comes across to me. Unsocialized? Sure. Semiferal? Yep. But not mean (like Oskar was to Eli when Eli rang his door bell). Not calculating. Is the vampire within capable of carrying out a devious, long-range plan? Don't think so. It kills impulsively and recklessly.

By the way, Bloody Mary, save some of the snow for when we come to see the play!

[Bloody Mary]

Personally, I regard the novel as the best argument against Thesis M. Nothing else is needed, really.

I've only read it once and liked the movie better, so I haven't analyzed it too much yet. In the OP, I'm speaking in terms of the film.

[Bloody Mary]

Additionally, Eli really is presented as childlike, even moreso than Oskar. Eli doesn't seem to plan much of anything, like when Eli said "about 12." Child, child, didn't you think about stuff that would come up if you started hanging out with Oskar? Evidently not, although the book, about which I know nothing, may present Eli as less in the moment than the film shows. Anyway, film Eli comes across as innocent. Bad things are caused by the fact that part of Eli can come under control of the vampire within. Lena said that, when they were shooting, she was Eli. Asked what Eli is like, Lena said that Eli is kind. That's how film Eli comes across to me. Unsocialized? Sure. Semiferal? Yep. But not mean (like Oskar was to Eli when Eli rang his door bell). Not calculating. Is the vampire within capable of carrying out a devious, long-range plan? Don't think so. It kills impulsively and recklessly.

By the way, Bloody Mary, save some of the snow for when we come to see the play!

I have to say it was pretty manipulative to take advantage of Jocke like he did. (I also wonder if that was what Hakan meant in the conversation Oskar overheard in the novel when he refers to something as "unbelievably cruel." But if you haven't read the book, you don't know that scene.) Anyway, Eli can come up with something in a few seconds to use people, as I'm sure he has done many times before, but I don't think he is able to be as controlling as Thesis M suggests.

As for the snow, there is plenty where I live, but I don't know about NYC. Haven't been there in a few years. It would be amazing the next time I go if it was to see LtROI on stage. *giggles like a fangirl*

[dongregg]

I have to say it was pretty manipulative to take advantage of Jocke like he did. (I also wonder if that was what Hakan meant in the conversation Oskar overheard in the novel when he refers to something as "unbelievably cruel." But if you haven't read the book, you don't know that scene.) Anyway, Eli can come up with something in a few seconds to use people, as I'm sure he has done many times before, but I don't think he is able to be as controlling as Thesis M suggests.

Right. As an effective predator, I think Eli's bag of tricks is readily available, such as pretending to be a young girl, pretending to be hurt, whatever. Like you, I'm not going to grace that cunning behavior with the words like manipulative or controling. I don't see anything in Eli that suggests making a plan longer than a day ahead, if that. If you are in the moment, you are on your toes, like a dancer. Plan too far ahead, and you're back on your heels, like a boxer expecting a left jab but getting knocked down instead with a right hook. It could be that Eli is more likely to make an unplanned, opportunistic strike and let Håkan clean up after her. I think that fits with Oskar having a couple of close calls even though a part of Eli is attracted to him. I can still love her even though she tricks and kills Jocke, a kind and likeable character. She's a vampire. That doesn't make her mean or cruel any more than a wolf or tiger is cruel. Just efficient.

As for the snow, there is plenty where I live, but I don't know about NYC. Haven't been there in a few years. It would be amazing the next time I go if it was to see LtROI on stage. *giggles like a fangirl*

Yeah, but it's just the thought of the cold that has me shivering already. I lived through two winters in the city. A blanket of new snow could be atmospheric for the evening performance on February 8, but this skinny old man expects to feel the cold. And, fanboy that I seem to have become, I'm still going to be checking any areas of the theater that are in shadow, on the lookout for a diminutive, underdressed, dark-haired kid of about 12.

[Bloody Mary]

As for the snow, there is plenty where I live, but I don't know about NYC. Haven't been there in a few years. It would be amazing the next time I go if it was to see LtROI on stage. *giggles like a fangirl*

Yeah, but it's just the thought of the cold that has me shivering already. I lived through two winters in the city. A blanket of new snow could be atmospheric for the evening performance on February 8, but this skinny old man expects to feel the cold. And, fanboy that I seem to have become, I'm still going to be checking any areas of the theater that are in shadow, on the lookout for a diminutive, underdressed, dark-haired kid of about 12.

Oh, good Lord. Every time I go out at night now I get a little creepy feeling. It's Eli's fault. Everyone else in winter: Christmas! Food! Carols! Joy! Me in winter: Vampires

[dongregg]

Oh, good Lord. Every time I go out at night now I get a little creepy feeling. It's Eli's fault. Everyone else in winter: Christmas! Food! Carols! Joy! Me in winter: Vampires

Yeah, remember Mackousko's painting of Eli on her laptop reading stuff on this forum? I'm sure she is reading about the play right now and planning on seeing it. EEEEEK!

[PeteMork]

Oh, good Lord. Every time I go out at night now I get a little creepy feeling. It's Eli's fault. Everyone else in winter: Christmas! Food! Carols! Joy! Me in winter: Vampires

Yeah, remember Mackousko's painting of Eli on her laptop reading stuff on this forum? I'm sure she is reading about the play right now and planning on seeing it. EEEEEK!

You're right! I had almost forgotten about that.

[a_contemplative_life]

Since I'm of the view that rarely are people all good or all bad, I'm inclined to think Eli might sometimes be a little manipulative towards Oskar, but not to deliberately harm him, only to make him want to hang out with her.